Sharing information with Parkridge neighbors to add to everyones awareness and enjoyment of the community.
Saturday, June 14, 2008
What's the deal with the assessment costs???
What's the deal with the assessment costs??? Something like 10,000 per owner or something that we are expected to pay within a few months or something. I don't understand this...please does anyone understand??? #71
What assessment costs are you referring to? Everyone was assessed $750 for roof/plumbing repairs (my roof still leaks), is there another assessment in the works???
There was an information update showing the costs of some recent repairs and stating, "To help prepare everyone, we are estimating that these repairs will require a $10,000.00 investment assessment from every unit"....."This is not an official notice of assessment. When this assessment is finalized, it may be a one-time payment or perhaps paid over 3 - 4 months."
From an investment point of view, the money isn't that bad (in the long run). Coming up with that kind of money, even spread over 3 - 4 months, not something that I see being possible for most of us.
My wife and I received the information update today and are dumbfounded that the board is actually considering a $10,000 assessment per unit, and furthermore that it would be due in 3-4 months. Please consider this my plea to any members of the board reading this blog, how can you possibly expect anyone to pay a $10,000 assessment in a matter of months??? I may be naive, but wouldn't it be possible to re-plumb and re-roof one building at a time to help reduce the impact to the owners?
I totally agree with wrxnut25. A $10,000 assessment is unconscionable. It is beyond extreme even in the best of economic times. In this economy, it is unthinkable. Besides, I'm fairly certain an assesment this high would have to be put to a vote amongst all the homeowners, nut just the five board members. It is quite possible that an assesment that high could warrant an investigation by an outside agency. Please board members! Consider what you are asking. There must be some other way. --Concerned Parkridge owner.
from what i understand of the issue, the hot water pipes, which are under constant pressure from the boilers, are the ones that keep blowing out and causing slab leaks.
what i don't understand is why we can't sell off the boilers (which are expensive and costly to maintain), and use the cold water lines with individual, tankless, on-demand hot water systems like these: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100627484
I for one know that we do not have that kind of money right now. I would need more than 3 or 4 months. I think if we all had that kind of money to throw down so fast we would have houses. A couple of thousand no problem but ten...that is insane.
Great point by Shawn. Also, a great point by that if we all had $10,000 at our disposal, we'd have houses or larger townhomes. Call me suspicious, but it could be the board is throwing out this $10,000 figure as a way of shocking everybody and then when the repairs come to $5,000 or $6,000 per owner, we won't feel so bad. It's an old marketing trick. Another possiblity: the board members will get some under-the-table dough from the construction contractors for securing a big job. That's another old trick. It is also quite illegal. I'd love your thoughts. -Concerned homeowner
no one in good faith can accuse the board members of any wrong doing so i would withhold making such accusations. these are volunteers taking on tough issues while acting in our best interest. i expect to completely review any winning bid before i write a check and plan on auditing the project's progress during construction. every other condo owner should do the same. however, i also expect an exhaustive search into alternatives, such as electric-powered tankless water heaters and even individual tank heaters on the roofs. if this is going to be done, it must be done right.
-shawn
ps: anyone seen the tennis court lately? it is seriously falling into the strawberry patch! :-(
Dear concern home owner:God is my witness and I like to say that the HOA members will not make any money out of this deal,nothing ,nada.Believe me I don't like the big number we're talking about,but after been through three slab leaks in our place in is not nice,just three years ago I ask one of the Pro-Serv guys of what could be the amount on fixing the problem,and ofcourse it was a lot. Golda Norton
Not only do I not have an extra $10,000 laying around I don't know anyone who does.
I am curious about alternative options that may cost less but the bottom line is that this place is 30 years old and if you owned a 30 year old home that needed to be re plumed you would be looking at $20,000 - $30,000. Your options would be to say I don't have the money and just ignore the problem like our last board did or suck it up and tackle this difficult situation head on like our new board is doing.
If we continue to defer and ignore this issue (constantly fixing the symptoms that already depleted our reserve funds on all the slab leaks) eventually we will not hot or running water. Try to sell your condos then!
In this case all of our collective financial situations come crashing together and the bids (assuming the course of action) are coming in at 1 million plus. Divided by 130 units = $7,700 each and that does not include the roof project.
Neighbors, we are going to have to get a home equity loan, line of credit, mom & dad or put it on a credit card.
I see that unit #102 went up for sale today at $274,000. The reality is that if I'm a perspective buyer I say let's begin the negotiations at $264,000 considering the pending expense. My point is pay now or pay later. If it makes you feel better, consider this a deferred expense that should have been included in your original purchase price. Moving forward, we will need to increase our own monthly dues to make sure there is sufficient funding for future capital improvements and maintenance too.
I see little difference between our situation and my teenage boy who wants to keep putting more and more oil in his car while not wanting to face the ultimate reality of pending doom of his vehicle.
The article at this link below was written by an attorney who specializes in California Condo Association Law. It is very enlightening especially chapter #2 detailing the 4 stages of an association life span. Which stage do you think we are in?
I've been an owner/resident at Parkridge for close to eight years. I've always liked living here. We have a beautiful park across the street, we have high-end homes all around us, and we are close to feeways and major shopping. It's usually pretty quiet (except lately with the incessant barking of a dog in a unit close to me)and folks seem to get along. The pool is nice (as long as it stays open) and the laundry room is kept up.
When I first heard about the possible $10,000 assesment, I was shocked as I'm sure most people were. I recently spent about $15,000 remodeling my unit and just purchased a new car. I certainly don't need another major expense.
As I read some of the posts here, I can see some of the owners bring up some good points regarding what is a very challenging problem for our board and we owners. I certainly would not want to see my unit lessen in value, or worse, not be able to sell it at all down the road due to major plumbing issues.
While I would HATE to put up $10,000, I would do it if I had to. But, and this is a huge "but", as another poster said, I would not write a check for one dime until I reviewed the plans under a microscope. I would also want to know about other options that might cost less and still solve the problem. I would also want regular updates on the progress of the work.
As others have said, if we owned homes, we'd probably have a major outlay at some point during our course of ownership so this is not much different.
I just hope our board members,some of whom I know and respect, do the right thing and consder all options. All the best, Unit 11
If anyone on the board is interested, I have a good friend from church who manages a very reputable company that replasters pools. I won't guarantee that it will be the cheapest bid, but it will definitely be an honest one, and the work will be top notch. Feel free to email me at wrxnut25@sbcglobal.net if interested and I'll provide the contact info. The name of the company is Alan Smith Pool Plastering Inc.
Every time I consider what a special assessment is for, I ask myself the question: "What would this cost if I had a stand-alone 2 or 3 bedroom home or a townhome??". $10,000 for a plumbing re-pipe and a roof replacement seems pretty reasonable to me.
Also, in the past, having been on the board for over seven years and having dealt with special assessments before, from experience I can safely say that if an owner can't come up with 10 grand within 90 days, they are definitely in the minority.
You don't need a crystal ball to realize that a 30 year old complex is going to need repairs to the infrastructure. Anyone who's moved in during the last 5 years or so should have planned for this.
If it comes to a vote on the special assessment, I'm voting yes. The alternative is a 20% annual increase in the monthly assessment every year until the Association has enough money to pay for these repairs. That's much more painful in the long run than taking out a home equity loan or digging into savings in the short run.
Actually I prefer the 20 percent increase anually because it buys me time to pay this huge assesment and gives the market some time to turn around. Todd I think you have lived here to long to know what the outside world is really like, we are not the minority we are the victims of a bad economy(thanks to the war).
"Anyone who's moved in during the last 5 years or so should have planned for this."
Yes, sure we should have done our due diligence, but the board should have been more forthcoming about the terrible hole that was being dug. One would assume that the board was on top of this.
What happened to planning for normal wear and tear, lifespan of different components etc. Isn't there a fiduciary responsibility of the board to plan for this?
I think Todd's right. Personally, I wouldn't have any problem coming up with $10,000, although I agree with the guy who said that's probably a high estimate and that in the end will probably be $5,000 to $7,000. I also agree that the board should have been more forthcoming with information, but, now that they have shared this formally, would we not be forced to disclose the possibility of this assessment to potential buyers if we were so inclined as to try to sell our condos in this crappy real-estate market??? Kinda makes it a "the sooner the better" situation as far as getting it over with.
Second, if you think about it, once the pipes get fixed and the roofs get replaced, what's the board going to do with the extra income???? Just putting it in the bank for the future is ridiculous. The Association, being a non-profit organization, is limited in the types of investments that can be made.
Third, if that money IS put in the bank, what are we going to do if and when we get another Rene Fernandez and Kevin Sharp on the Board. They just seemed to love spending money and signing checks. My personal opinion is it's better to keep the board (whoever is on it) on a short leash financially with a low monthly rate and then special assess for special circumstances like the plumbing and the roofs.
Here is some info off the web talking about the normal condo setup. Maybe our assocation started out okay with the proper reserves and a future cash flow plan for future repairs.
What went wrong?? When did we get off track?
Reserve Fund Study & Twenty-five year cash flow plan:
The Reserve Fund Study professional planners evaluate the major common area components and they are provided a life cycle. The twenty-five year cash flow plan is created to make sure that there is sufficient money in the reserve fund when the cost of repair or replacement of a major component of the common element requires attention. So it is very important for a complex to have sufficient money in the Reserve Fund so Special Assessments are avoided.
The problem with Rrserve Fund Studies is that it doesn't take into account the tendency of boards to spend money as soon as it comes in. The easiest way for propertty managers and boards to solve problems is to thrw money at it, sometimes just to get loud, obnoxious owners off their back.
I agree with the idea of keeping the monthly fee low and then pay as you go for major repairs. This has been mentioned several times on this blog and I agree with it.
IT'S so easy to say this and that but unless you do some research on your own about fixing the plumbing in our community and not just looking on the computer you'll see the reality go ahead start making phone calls and get the best deal if you find it please let me know.
21 comments:
What assessment costs are you referring to? Everyone was assessed $750 for roof/plumbing repairs (my roof still leaks), is there another assessment in the works???
There was an information update showing the costs of some recent repairs and stating, "To help prepare everyone, we are estimating that these repairs will require a $10,000.00 investment assessment from every unit"....."This is not an official notice of assessment. When this assessment is finalized, it may be a one-time payment or perhaps paid over 3 - 4 months."
From an investment point of view, the money isn't that bad (in the long run). Coming up with that kind of money, even spread over 3 - 4 months, not something that I see being possible for most of us.
Well, it looks like the new board is not afraid to address some tough issues.
This will be painful for many of us. Necessary? I don't know. Guess we will find out. They just need to find a way to ease the pain.
My wife and I received the information update today and are dumbfounded that the board is actually considering a $10,000 assessment per unit, and furthermore that it would be due in 3-4 months. Please consider this my plea to any members of the board reading this blog, how can you possibly expect anyone to pay a $10,000 assessment in a matter of months??? I may be naive, but wouldn't it be possible to re-plumb and re-roof one building at a time to help reduce the impact to the owners?
I totally agree with wrxnut25. A $10,000 assessment is unconscionable. It is beyond extreme even in the best of economic times. In this economy, it is unthinkable. Besides, I'm fairly certain an assesment this high would have to be put to a vote amongst all the homeowners, nut just the five board members. It is quite possible that an assesment that high could warrant an investigation by an outside agency. Please board members! Consider what you are asking. There must be some other way.
--Concerned Parkridge owner.
from what i understand of the issue, the hot water pipes, which are under constant pressure from the boilers, are the ones that keep blowing out and causing slab leaks.
what i don't understand is why we can't sell off the boilers (which are expensive and costly to maintain), and use the cold water lines with individual, tankless, on-demand hot water systems like these: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100627484
-shawn
I for one know that we do not have that kind of money right now. I would need more than 3 or 4 months. I think if we all had that kind of money to throw down so fast we would have houses. A couple of thousand no problem but ten...that is insane.
Great point by Shawn. Also, a great point by that if we all had $10,000 at our disposal, we'd have houses or larger townhomes. Call me suspicious, but it could be the board is throwing out this $10,000 figure as a way of shocking everybody and then when the repairs come to $5,000 or $6,000 per owner, we won't feel so bad. It's an old marketing trick. Another possiblity: the board members will get some under-the-table dough from the construction contractors for securing a big job. That's another old trick. It is also quite illegal. I'd love your thoughts.
-Concerned homeowner
no one in good faith can accuse the board members of any wrong doing so i would withhold making such accusations. these are volunteers taking on tough issues while acting in our best interest.
i expect to completely review any winning bid before i write a check and plan on auditing the project's progress during construction. every other condo owner should do the same.
however, i also expect an exhaustive search into alternatives, such as electric-powered tankless water heaters and even individual tank heaters on the roofs.
if this is going to be done, it must be done right.
-shawn
ps: anyone seen the tennis court lately? it is seriously falling into the strawberry patch! :-(
Dear concern home owner:God is my witness and I like to say that the HOA members will not make any money out of this deal,nothing ,nada.Believe me I don't like the big number we're talking about,but after been through three slab leaks in our place in is not nice,just three years ago I ask one of the Pro-Serv guys of what could be the amount on fixing the problem,and ofcourse it was a lot.
Golda Norton
Not only do I not have an extra $10,000 laying around I don't know anyone who does.
I am curious about alternative options that may cost less but the bottom line is that this place is 30 years old and if you owned a 30 year old home that needed to be re plumed you would be looking at $20,000 - $30,000. Your options would be to say I don't have the money and just ignore the problem like our last board did or suck it up and tackle this difficult situation head on like our new board is doing.
If we continue to defer and ignore this issue (constantly fixing the symptoms that already depleted our reserve funds on all the slab leaks) eventually we will not hot or running water. Try to sell your condos then!
In this case all of our collective financial situations come crashing together and the bids (assuming the course of action) are coming in at 1 million plus. Divided by 130 units = $7,700 each and that does not include the roof project.
Neighbors, we are going to have to get a home equity loan, line of credit, mom & dad or put it on a credit card.
I see that unit #102 went up for sale today at $274,000. The reality is that if I'm a perspective buyer I say let's begin the negotiations at $264,000 considering the pending expense. My point is pay now or pay later. If it makes you feel better, consider this a deferred expense that should have been included in your original purchase price. Moving forward, we will need to increase our own monthly dues to make sure there is sufficient funding for future capital improvements and maintenance too.
I see little difference between our situation and my teenage boy who wants to keep putting more and more oil in his car while not wanting to face the ultimate reality of pending doom of his vehicle.
The article at this link below was written by an attorney who specializes in California Condo Association Law. It is very enlightening especially chapter #2 detailing the 4 stages of an association life span. Which stage do you think we are in?
http://www.berding-weil.net/pdf/uncertain_future.pdf
Howard
I've been an owner/resident at Parkridge for close to eight years. I've always liked living here. We have a beautiful park across the street, we have high-end homes all around us, and we are close to feeways and major shopping. It's usually pretty quiet (except lately with the incessant barking of a dog in a unit close to me)and folks seem to get along. The pool is nice (as long as it stays open) and the laundry room is kept up.
When I first heard about the possible $10,000 assesment, I was shocked as I'm sure most people were. I recently spent about $15,000 remodeling my unit and just purchased a new car. I certainly don't need another major expense.
As I read some of the posts here, I can see some of the owners bring up some good points regarding what is a very challenging problem for our board and we owners. I certainly would not want to see my unit lessen in value, or worse, not be able to sell it at all down the road due to major plumbing issues.
While I would HATE to put up $10,000, I would do it if I had to. But, and this is a huge "but", as another poster said, I would not write a check for one dime until I reviewed the plans under a microscope. I would also want to know about other options that might cost less and still solve the problem. I would also want regular updates on the progress of the work.
As others have said, if we owned homes, we'd probably have a major outlay at some point during our course of ownership so this is not much different.
I just hope our board members,some of whom I know and respect, do the right thing and consder all options.
All the best,
Unit 11
If anyone on the board is interested, I have a good friend from church who manages a very reputable company that replasters pools. I won't guarantee that it will be the cheapest bid, but it will definitely be an honest one, and the work will be top notch. Feel free to email me at wrxnut25@sbcglobal.net if interested and I'll provide the contact info. The name of the company is Alan Smith Pool Plastering Inc.
http://www.alansmithpools.com/
Every time I consider what a special assessment is for, I ask myself the question: "What would this cost if I had a stand-alone 2 or 3 bedroom home or a townhome??". $10,000 for a plumbing re-pipe and a roof replacement seems pretty reasonable to me.
Also, in the past, having been on the board for over seven years and having dealt with special assessments before, from experience I can safely say that if an owner can't come up with 10 grand within 90 days, they are definitely in the minority.
You don't need a crystal ball to realize that a 30 year old complex is going to need repairs to the infrastructure. Anyone who's moved in during the last 5 years or so should have planned for this.
If it comes to a vote on the special assessment, I'm voting yes. The alternative is a 20% annual increase in the monthly assessment every year until the Association has enough money to pay for these repairs. That's much more painful in the long run than taking out a home equity loan or digging into savings in the short run.
Todd in 122
Actually I prefer the 20 percent increase anually because it buys me time to pay this huge assesment and gives the market some time to turn around. Todd I think you have lived here to long to know what the outside world is really like, we are not the minority we are the victims of a bad economy(thanks to the war).
There was a prior quote on this blog that said:
"Anyone who's moved in during the last 5 years or so should have planned for this."
Yes, sure we should have done our due diligence, but the board should have been more forthcoming about the terrible hole that was being dug. One would assume that the board was on top of this.
What happened to planning for normal wear and tear, lifespan of different components etc. Isn't there a fiduciary responsibility of the board to plan for this?
I think Todd's right. Personally, I wouldn't have any problem coming up with $10,000, although I agree with the guy who said that's probably a high estimate and that in the end will probably be $5,000 to $7,000. I also agree that the board should have been more forthcoming with information, but, now that they have shared this formally, would we not be forced to disclose the possibility of this assessment to potential buyers if we were so inclined as to try to sell our condos in this crappy real-estate market??? Kinda makes it a "the sooner the better" situation as far as getting it over with.
Second, if you think about it, once the pipes get fixed and the roofs get replaced, what's the board going to do with the extra income???? Just putting it in the bank for the future is ridiculous. The Association, being a non-profit organization, is limited in the types of investments that can be made.
Third, if that money IS put in the bank, what are we going to do if and when we get another Rene Fernandez and Kevin Sharp on the Board. They just seemed to love spending money and signing checks. My personal opinion is it's better to keep the board (whoever is on it) on a short leash financially with a low monthly rate and then special assess for special circumstances like the plumbing and the roofs.
Here is some info off the web talking about the normal condo setup. Maybe our assocation started out okay with the proper reserves and a future cash flow plan for future repairs.
What went wrong?? When did we get off track?
Reserve Fund Study & Twenty-five year cash flow plan:
The Reserve Fund Study professional planners evaluate the major common area components and they are provided a life cycle. The twenty-five year cash flow plan is created to make sure that there is sufficient money in the reserve fund when the cost of repair or replacement of a major component of the common element requires attention. So it is very important for a complex to have sufficient money in the Reserve Fund so Special Assessments are avoided.
Here's some easy answers for the Board on these topics:
Find a plumbing company you feel warm and fuzzy with. Get an estimate. If it costs $500,000, divide it by 136 and send us the bill.
Ditto with a roofing company. If it costs another $500,000. divide it by 136 and send us the bill.
Ditto with the pool and any other repairs this place needs. Divide the cost by 136 and send us the bill.
No loans, no creative financing, no deferred payments. Just get it done. No rush. No one's going to sell anything in ths lousy real estate market.
There, wasn't that easy ?
The problem with Rrserve Fund Studies is that it doesn't take into account the tendency of boards to spend money as soon as it comes in. The easiest way for propertty managers and boards to solve problems is to thrw money at it, sometimes just to get loud, obnoxious owners off their back.
I agree with the idea of keeping the monthly fee low and then pay as you go for major repairs. This has been mentioned several times on this blog and I agree with it.
IT'S so easy to say this and that but unless you do some research on your own about fixing the plumbing in our community and not just looking on the computer you'll see the reality go ahead start making phone calls and get the best deal if you find it please let me know.
golda norton
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